Date   

Re: Questions about the MTH and their USRA twin hopper

Raymond Stern
 

Bruce,

What is the society modelers committee, which you are chairman of,
doing with the manufacturers in advancing the specific items you
mentioned to Jim about the MTH hoppers and hoppers in general?

Raymond


New Book at the Company Store

BigSteam
 

Bob Yanosey's Morning Sun book "Observation Car Color Portfolio, Vol 1" is available for sale. This is a softbound of 96 pages with 16 devoted to 32 B&O images. It can be purchased as Item 10186 with retail price of $39.95. Society members receive a 10% discount.
--

Craig Close
Catonsville
Also BORHS Store Manager
storemanager@...


Re: Questions about the MTH and their USRA twin hopper

Bruce Elliott
 

                     Good morning Jim;

            The photos show a state-of-the-art model of highest quality, yet I suspect that under B&O scrutiny, that errors could be found.  It is nice that MTH listened to you and did better lettering on there subsequent runs. Correct me if I'm wrong, that MTH/Scale Trains is only doing one variation of the USRA 55t hopper. It would be nice if they would do an N-17b with the Duryea underframe, the BR&P version and it would be nice if they did the N-26 as well. Knowing that they would most likely do different class lettering on the same model would be acceptable, considering. Lettering schemes: only my opinion, but we need more variety than 13 Great States and Billboard. The Early Kuhler, Wartime Kuhler and Transition Kuhler as well as pre herald lettering would be a welcome visual relief. A lot of my fleet (which is horribly outdated by today's standards, Varney, Athearn and Accurail) has seen repaints an re-lettering into these earlier schemes as appropriate to the body style. Even B&O people need to know there was life before 13 Great States and Billboard. Even early 13 Great States would be a relief.

Bruce


On Thursday, October 14, 2021, 01:05:14 AM EDT, Jim Mischke <jmischke@...> wrote:




Need some input for a manufacturer.   Questions are in bold.



ScaleTrains has bought the MTH HO scale product line.   Before long, they will be re-releasing their best product, the USRA twin hopper.   B&O classes N-17, N-17a, N-17b and N-26 were USRA twin hoppers or 1920's knockoffs.  Attached are two prototype scans from the Fry-Barriger-Underwood color stash for reference.

In the last 10 years, there has been three MTH B&O hopper releases.   First one was a foobie, a crisply letttered yet inaccurate N-12g in early lettering.  With help from the mischke committee, the next two releases were the Early Linking 13 States and a B&O Billboard N-17, accurate and appropriate.   This leaves several schemes yet to do.

I am impressed by this little B&O N-17 model.   Is everyone else impressed?  Are there any hardware changes to suggest?   There is time for some private tooling discussions to incorporate suggestions.

We B&O modelers must have a few MTH hoppers on hand.  Are current MTH N-17 fleet owners satisfied?



For future model lettering schemes, there is the Late Linking 13 States scheme, the other B&O Billboard scheme, some early non-herald schemes and three Kuhler herald schemes for them to consider.     Roughly in that order.   They can also make an ex-B&S N-26 lettering variation.




One last question.  Are their any other products in the former MTH line we B&O guys should be payng attention to?    GP35?


Replies either on-list or off-list are fine.




- - -


ScaleTrains press release link:  https://www.scaletrains.com/mthtooling/


MTH Early Linking 13 States N-17 link:  80-97062 | MTH ELECTRIC TRAINS



MTH N-12g lettering foobie link:  81-97001 | MTH ELECTRIC TRAINS









Signal and other railway info source

bojohn81
 


Hi all,
 I couldn't figure out how to just send the site info so I just forwarded the email.  Sorry it's from the N&W group I belong to, my wife's late grandfather worked at Portmouth Ohio for the N&W. So I joined to find out about him. 
 Hope some find something of interest on here.
 Regards, 
John Musgrove 


Sent via the Samsung Galaxy Note10, an AT&T 5G Evolution capable smartphone


-------- Original message --------
From: NW Mailing List <nw-mailing-list@...>
Date: 10/14/21 12:15 PM (GMT-05:00)
To: 'NW Mailing List' <nw-mailing-list@...>
Subject: RE: Conversion to PL Signals, Roanoke-Walton,. July 1936

Thanks for sharing the article. I had not heard of Signal Engineer magazine so I Googled it. There’s a free archive of many issues at https://www.jonroma.net/signaling/railway-signaling/

 

The website is indexed by year and subject keywords. There are 33 N&W articles and 4 VGN. All the scans can be downloaded.

 

Rob Doorack

Guilford, CT

 

 Message 


Re: N-35/N35a photos - Found 'em!

John Kernan
 

John,
NEVER MIND! I learned the secret handshake when I looked in "Photos". My apologies.

John Kernan


I previously wrote:

Hello John,
Unless my being able to do so is similar to knowing a secret handshake, I can't download (5) of your (6) images. I can download the first image, 427218, which is a JPG, but the other (5), which are all XML files, I'm unable to download and get "Failed - Forbidden". Is it only me? Can you repost these as JPGs, else provide the URL(s) where they reside if there are any? TIA.
 
John Kernan


Re: N-35/N35a photos

John Kernan
 

Hello John,
Unless my being able to do so is similar to knowing a secret handshake, I can't download (5) of your (6) images. I can download the first image, 427218, which is a JPG, but the other (5), which are all XML files, I'm unable to download and get "Failed - Forbidden". Is it only me? Can you repost these as JPGs, else provide the URL(s) where they reside if there are any? TIA.

John Kernan


Questions about the MTH and their USRA twin hopper

Jim Mischke
 



Need some input for a manufacturer.   Questions are in bold.



ScaleTrains has bought the MTH HO scale product line.   Before long, they will be re-releasing their best product, the USRA twin hopper.   B&O classes N-17, N-17a, N-17b and N-26 were USRA twin hoppers or 1920's knockoffs.  Attached are two prototype scans from the Fry-Barriger-Underwood color stash for reference.

In the last 10 years, there has been three MTH B&O hopper releases.   First one was a foobie, a crisply letttered yet inaccurate N-12g in early lettering.  With help from the mischke committee, the next two releases were the Early Linking 13 States and a B&O Billboard N-17, accurate and appropriate.   This leaves several schemes yet to do.

I am impressed by this little B&O N-17 model.   Is everyone else impressed?  Are there any hardware changes to suggest?   There is time for some private tooling discussions to incorporate suggestions.

We B&O modelers must have a few MTH hoppers on hand.  Are current MTH N-17 fleet owners satisfied?



For future model lettering schemes, there is the Late Linking 13 States scheme, the other B&O Billboard scheme, some early non-herald schemes and three Kuhler herald schemes for them to consider.     Roughly in that order.   They can also make an ex-B&S N-26 lettering variation.




One last question.  Are their any other products in the former MTH line we B&O guys should be payng attention to?    GP35?


Replies either on-list or off-list are fine.




- - -


ScaleTrains press release link:  https://www.scaletrains.com/mthtooling/


MTH Early Linking 13 States N-17 link:  80-97062 | MTH ELECTRIC TRAINS



MTH N-12g lettering foobie link:  81-97001 | MTH ELECTRIC TRAINS









Re: N-35/N35a photos

Jim Mischke
 


Spreading the parts business around was a B&O custom.   We used to think the B&O M-59 boxcar had Morton running boards.  Then some documentation emerged that some were Morton, some were Apex, and one other in a 200/300/400 proportion, not evenly split, either.    Parts lists emerged for other car orders showing the same thing.

Paint would be the same way.   A 1000 boxcar order might have five paint suppliers.  All were aiming at bright oxide red, yet their chemistries differed.  So the exact hue and how they weathered differed as well.



If research was easy it wouldn't be fun.





On Wednesday, October 13, 2021, 07:06:45 PM MDT, John King via groups.io <e27ca@...> wrote:


B&O used more than one kind of door lock on these cars.   I've seen both N-35 and N-35A with Wine or Enterprise locks.  Not sure if there was a third kind or not.   Not sure if there was any pattern about which cars had which locks.

John King    


-----Original Message-----
From: Andrew Roberts <soundrew@...>
To: main@BaltimoreAndOhioRailroadList.groups.io
Sent: Wed, Oct 13, 2021 8:03 pm
Subject: Re: [BaltimoreAndOhioRailroadList] N-35/N35a photos

John,

Thanks for the excellent comparisons. Am I wrong to think the N35a had a vastly different door release too?

Andy
--
Andrew Roberts
Monrovia, MD


Re: N-35/N35a photos

John King
 

B&O used more than one kind of door lock on these cars.   I've seen both N-35 and N-35A with Wine or Enterprise locks.  Not sure if there was a third kind or not.   Not sure if there was any pattern about which cars had which locks.

John King    


-----Original Message-----
From: Andrew Roberts <soundrew@...>
To: main@BaltimoreAndOhioRailroadList.groups.io
Sent: Wed, Oct 13, 2021 8:03 pm
Subject: Re: [BaltimoreAndOhioRailroadList] N-35/N35a photos

John,

Thanks for the excellent comparisons. Am I wrong to think the N35a had a vastly different door release too?

Andy
--
Andrew Roberts
Monrovia, MD


Re: N-35/N35a photos

Andrew Roberts
 

John,
Thanks for the excellent comparisons. Am I wrong to think the N35a had a vastly different door release too?

Andy
--
Andrew Roberts
Monrovia, MD


N-35/N35a photos

John King
 

Let's see if this helps explain some of the visual differences between N-35 and N-35A open hoppers.

John King

Builder's photo of 427218.  Note how the piece that extends from the bottom of the car at the bolster to the end slopes upward.

N-35A.  The piece that extends from the bottom of the body over the bolsters to the end is level.  


N-35 showing B end of car.   End braces only extend to the bottom of the end of the hopper.


N-35  showing the A end of the car.  Vertical braces extend only to the bottom of the end of the car body.




N-35A showing the A end of the car.   "Z" shaped braces extend to top of car end.
N-35A showing B end of car.




Re: Followup N-35/N35a images - Early Linking 13 States images

Eric Hansmann
 

From Ed and John's posts, it seems there are a couple differences between the N-35 and N-35A cars.

Ed mentioned the AAR Z-26 center sill on the N-35A and John notes a different side sill appearance on the same cars.



Eric Hansmann
Murfreesboro, TN


On 10/12/2021 11:59 PM John King via groups.io <e27ca@...> wrote:


The design of the AAR 1935 Standard Twin Hopper car was slightly revised around 1940 or 1941.   The early version on B&O was N-35, the revised version was similar to the N-35A . One noticeable difference is the appearance of the side sill that angles up from the car body to the end sill (N-35) and the revised version that is level from the car body to the end sill (like the N-35A).       The Atlas model represents the early version and the Kadee model represents the revised version built during the 1940's and 1950's..  Of course neither has the Duryea underframe of B&O cars but a side view of the early version looks like an N-35 and a side view of the N-35A is the revised version.    

Curiously Atlas letters and numbers its B&O car as an N-35a when it closer to an an N-35.     The end bracing on the Kadee model is different than what B&O used. 

Bottom line is there is a noticeable difference between N-35 and N-35A .   

Hopefully the above is confusing enough to prod the experts to chime in with more complete/precise information.   Right now my flatbed scanner is not talking to my computer so I can't scan and post photos to show the difference.

John King.       


-----Original Message-----
From: Edwin Kirstatter <q1xamacarthur1@...>
To: main@baltimoreandohiorailroadlist.groups.io
Sent: Wed, Oct 13, 2021 12:12 am
Subject: Re: [BaltimoreAndOhioRailroadList] Followup N-35/N35a images - Early Linking 13 States images

Looking at B&O Official Equipment Diagrams we find the Class N-35 built in 1940 and 1941, 50 Ton Steel Hoppers were built by Bethlehem Steel Co. and General American Transport, 1000 cars each with 9-Q trucks and Duryea Underframe.

The N-35A cars were built from 1944 to 1947 by Beth. Stl. Co., Pull. Std., A C & F, Ralston, and Pressed Steel. in 500 to 1000 batches with 9-T trucks and Duryea Underframe with type 1 single spring and AAR Z-26 Center Sills.  



Wilmington OH November 14 1969

Stephen Phillips
 

Thanks. Here's the album with more photos:
http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/archiveThumbs.aspx?id=71843

Stephen Phillips


-------- Forwarded Message --------
Subject: Re: [BaltimoreAndOhioRailroadList] Wilmington OH November 14 1969
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2021 03:29:26 -0700
From: Martin Baumann <martin98baumann@...>
Reply-To: main@BaltimoreAndOhioRailroadList.groups.io
To: main@BaltimoreAndOhioRailroadList.groups.io


Thanks for a fascinating insight.  I found this via google: http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=2714674


Re: Wilmington OH November 14 1969

Martin Baumann
 

Thanks for a fascinating insight.  I found this via google: http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=2714674


Re: Followup N-35/N35a images - Early Linking 13 States images

John King
 

The design of the AAR 1935 Standard Twin Hopper car was slightly revised around 1940 or 1941.   The early version on B&O was N-35, the revised version was similar to the N-35A . One noticeable difference is the appearance of the side sill that angles up from the car body to the end sill (N-35) and the revised version that is level from the car body to the end sill (like the N-35A).       The Atlas model represents the early version and the Kadee model represents the revised version built during the 1940's and 1950's..  Of course neither has the Duryea underframe of B&O cars but a side view of the early version looks like an N-35 and a side view of the N-35A is the revised version.    

Curiously Atlas letters and numbers its B&O car as an N-35a when it closer to an an N-35.     The end bracing on the Kadee model is different than what B&O used. 

Bottom line is there is a noticeable difference between N-35 and N-35A .   

Hopefully the above is confusing enough to prod the experts to chime in with more complete/precise information.   Right now my flatbed scanner is not talking to my computer so I can't scan and post photos to show the difference.

John King.       


-----Original Message-----
From: Edwin Kirstatter <q1xamacarthur1@...>
To: main@baltimoreandohiorailroadlist.groups.io
Sent: Wed, Oct 13, 2021 12:12 am
Subject: Re: [BaltimoreAndOhioRailroadList] Followup N-35/N35a images - Early Linking 13 States images

Looking at B&O Official Equipment Diagrams we find the Class N-35 built in 1940 and 1941, 50 Ton Steel Hoppers were built by Bethlehem Steel Co. and General American Transport, 1000 cars each with 9-Q trucks and Duryea Underframe.

The N-35A cars were built from 1944 to 1947 by Beth. Stl. Co., Pull. Std., A C & F, Ralston, and Pressed Steel. in 500 to 1000 batches with 9-T trucks and Duryea Underframe with type 1 single spring and AAR Z-26 Center Sills.  

On Tue, Oct 12, 2021 at 7:45 PM Joe Nevin <jfnevin@...> wrote:
No, Bethlehem Steel  built both  classes.  However, GATC also built N-35, and Pressed Steel, Ralston Steel, Pullman, and AC&F also built N-35a.  I do not know the difference between the classes,but the N-35a was built to a modified speciation.
Do not give up!  John Teichmoeller, Ben Hom, or other hopper guy may yet ring in.

Joe


--
Ed K.


Re: Followup N-35/N35a images - Early Linking 13 States images

Edwin Kirstatter
 

Looking at B&O Official Equipment Diagrams we find the Class N-35 built in 1940 and 1941, 50 Ton Steel Hoppers were built by Bethlehem Steel Co. and General American Transport, 1000 cars each with 9-Q trucks and Duryea Underframe.

The N-35A cars were built from 1944 to 1947 by Beth. Stl. Co., Pull. Std., A C & F, Ralston, and Pressed Steel. in 500 to 1000 batches with 9-T trucks and Duryea Underframe with type 1 single spring and AAR Z-26 Center Sills.  

On Tue, Oct 12, 2021 at 7:45 PM Joe Nevin <jfnevin@...> wrote:
No, Bethlehem Steel  built both  classes.  However, GATC also built N-35, and Pressed Steel, Ralston Steel, Pullman, and AC&F also built N-35a.  I do not know the difference between the classes,but the N-35a was built to a modified speciation.
Do not give up!  John Teichmoeller, Ben Hom, or other hopper guy may yet ring in.

Joe



--
Ed K.


Re: Followup N-35/N35a images - Early Linking 13 States images

Joe Nevin
 

No, Bethlehem Steel  built both  classes.  However, GATC also built N-35, and Pressed Steel, Ralston Steel, Pullman, and AC&F also built N-35a.  I do not know the difference between the classes,but the N-35a was built to a modified speciation.
Do not give up!  John Teichmoeller, Ben Hom, or other hopper guy may yet ring in.

Joe


Re: Followup N-35/N35a images - Early Linking 13 States images

Jim Mischke
 

Not the case.  Many orders.  Many different builders




On Tuesday, October 12, 2021, 04:55:48 PM MDT, Eric Hansmann <eric@...> wrote:


Were the two classes built by different companies?


Eric Hansmann
Murfreesboro, TN

On Oct 12, 2021, at 5:54 PM, Ryan Tamburrino <ryantamburrino@...> wrote:

Well jim if you don’t know then no one knows :) 

it shall remain a B&O mystery…

thank you! 


Re: Followup N-35/N35a images - Early Linking 13 States images

Eric Hansmann
 

Were the two classes built by different companies?


Eric Hansmann
Murfreesboro, TN

On Oct 12, 2021, at 5:54 PM, Ryan Tamburrino <ryantamburrino@...> wrote:

Well jim if you don’t know then no one knows :) 

it shall remain a B&O mystery…

thank you! 


Re: Followup N-35/N35a images - Early Linking 13 States images

Ryan Tamburrino
 

Well jim if you don’t know then no one knows :) 

it shall remain a B&O mystery…

thank you! 

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