Followup N-35/N35a images - Early Linking 13 States images


Jim Mischke
 



Images showing Early Linking 13 States scheme were a little too big for their britches memory wise, here they are in this followup email.


The scruffy N-35a in this lettering is shown with a smalll 25"diameter Linking 13 States herald, versus the standard 36" herald.  Although this photo is a Reading shop photo documenting before-or-after billable shopping, it is unlikely Reading did any lettering.


Ryan Tamburrino
 

This posting is gold.  Thank you as always, jim, for your wealth of info and helping us all learn 


Pardon the question, but still relevant, what was the difference between the n35 and the n35a to warrant the separate classification? 


Jim Mischke
 


I do not know the difference between N-35 and N-35a hoppers.  Both had Duryea underframes.   

Their cubic capacity was 2136 cu. ft, ....  versus 2145 cu. ft. for the AAR standard hopper, N-41, and N-44 with conventional draft gear.



I once interviewed Arch McElvany, retired B&O general manager, about his experience as a EA diesel rider and head of the Motive Power Bureau.    He had been in charge of the DuBois shop programs, like the N-44.   All on his managerial climb.   Our conversation drifted that way.  He said that the huge bad order crises of 1961 (over 25% bad order) was fed largely by the wholesale failure of Duryea underframes on hoppers in that period.

Seems an element of the underframe was in contact with acidic wet coal and corrodes.   The car sags under load, the middlle side bows out and will cause a sideswipe accident if undetected.   Car inspectors look out for this and bad order the car before any catastrophe.   

Yet then the interview turned back to diesels.  In 1991, I was unaware I eventually would be a B&O freight car guy

Bob Witt and I have scratched our heads on what the suseptible structural member could be.   Has to be in the middle.  The actual underframe is covered by sheet metal like all hoppers.   Maybe an inherent water drip or capture?





On Tuesday, October 12, 2021, 05:12:34 AM MDT, Ryan Tamburrino <ryantamburrino@...> wrote:


This posting is gold.  Thank you as always, jim, for your wealth of info and helping us all learn 


Pardon the question, but still relevant, what was the difference between the n35 and the n35a to warrant the separate classification? 


Ryan Tamburrino
 

Well jim if you don’t know then no one knows :) 

it shall remain a B&O mystery…

thank you! 


Eric Hansmann
 

Were the two classes built by different companies?


Eric Hansmann
Murfreesboro, TN

On Oct 12, 2021, at 5:54 PM, Ryan Tamburrino <ryantamburrino@...> wrote:

Well jim if you don’t know then no one knows :) 

it shall remain a B&O mystery…

thank you! 


Jim Mischke
 

Not the case.  Many orders.  Many different builders




On Tuesday, October 12, 2021, 04:55:48 PM MDT, Eric Hansmann <eric@...> wrote:


Were the two classes built by different companies?


Eric Hansmann
Murfreesboro, TN

On Oct 12, 2021, at 5:54 PM, Ryan Tamburrino <ryantamburrino@...> wrote:

Well jim if you don’t know then no one knows :) 

it shall remain a B&O mystery…

thank you! 


Joe Nevin
 

No, Bethlehem Steel  built both  classes.  However, GATC also built N-35, and Pressed Steel, Ralston Steel, Pullman, and AC&F also built N-35a.  I do not know the difference between the classes,but the N-35a was built to a modified speciation.
Do not give up!  John Teichmoeller, Ben Hom, or other hopper guy may yet ring in.

Joe


Edwin Kirstatter
 

Looking at B&O Official Equipment Diagrams we find the Class N-35 built in 1940 and 1941, 50 Ton Steel Hoppers were built by Bethlehem Steel Co. and General American Transport, 1000 cars each with 9-Q trucks and Duryea Underframe.

The N-35A cars were built from 1944 to 1947 by Beth. Stl. Co., Pull. Std., A C & F, Ralston, and Pressed Steel. in 500 to 1000 batches with 9-T trucks and Duryea Underframe with type 1 single spring and AAR Z-26 Center Sills.  

On Tue, Oct 12, 2021 at 7:45 PM Joe Nevin <jfnevin@...> wrote:
No, Bethlehem Steel  built both  classes.  However, GATC also built N-35, and Pressed Steel, Ralston Steel, Pullman, and AC&F also built N-35a.  I do not know the difference between the classes,but the N-35a was built to a modified speciation.
Do not give up!  John Teichmoeller, Ben Hom, or other hopper guy may yet ring in.

Joe



--
Ed K.


John King
 

The design of the AAR 1935 Standard Twin Hopper car was slightly revised around 1940 or 1941.   The early version on B&O was N-35, the revised version was similar to the N-35A . One noticeable difference is the appearance of the side sill that angles up from the car body to the end sill (N-35) and the revised version that is level from the car body to the end sill (like the N-35A).       The Atlas model represents the early version and the Kadee model represents the revised version built during the 1940's and 1950's..  Of course neither has the Duryea underframe of B&O cars but a side view of the early version looks like an N-35 and a side view of the N-35A is the revised version.    

Curiously Atlas letters and numbers its B&O car as an N-35a when it closer to an an N-35.     The end bracing on the Kadee model is different than what B&O used. 

Bottom line is there is a noticeable difference between N-35 and N-35A .   

Hopefully the above is confusing enough to prod the experts to chime in with more complete/precise information.   Right now my flatbed scanner is not talking to my computer so I can't scan and post photos to show the difference.

John King.       


-----Original Message-----
From: Edwin Kirstatter <q1xamacarthur1@...>
To: main@baltimoreandohiorailroadlist.groups.io
Sent: Wed, Oct 13, 2021 12:12 am
Subject: Re: [BaltimoreAndOhioRailroadList] Followup N-35/N35a images - Early Linking 13 States images

Looking at B&O Official Equipment Diagrams we find the Class N-35 built in 1940 and 1941, 50 Ton Steel Hoppers were built by Bethlehem Steel Co. and General American Transport, 1000 cars each with 9-Q trucks and Duryea Underframe.

The N-35A cars were built from 1944 to 1947 by Beth. Stl. Co., Pull. Std., A C & F, Ralston, and Pressed Steel. in 500 to 1000 batches with 9-T trucks and Duryea Underframe with type 1 single spring and AAR Z-26 Center Sills.  

On Tue, Oct 12, 2021 at 7:45 PM Joe Nevin <jfnevin@...> wrote:
No, Bethlehem Steel  built both  classes.  However, GATC also built N-35, and Pressed Steel, Ralston Steel, Pullman, and AC&F also built N-35a.  I do not know the difference between the classes,but the N-35a was built to a modified speciation.
Do not give up!  John Teichmoeller, Ben Hom, or other hopper guy may yet ring in.

Joe


--
Ed K.


Eric Hansmann
 

From Ed and John's posts, it seems there are a couple differences between the N-35 and N-35A cars.

Ed mentioned the AAR Z-26 center sill on the N-35A and John notes a different side sill appearance on the same cars.



Eric Hansmann
Murfreesboro, TN


On 10/12/2021 11:59 PM John King via groups.io <e27ca@...> wrote:


The design of the AAR 1935 Standard Twin Hopper car was slightly revised around 1940 or 1941.   The early version on B&O was N-35, the revised version was similar to the N-35A . One noticeable difference is the appearance of the side sill that angles up from the car body to the end sill (N-35) and the revised version that is level from the car body to the end sill (like the N-35A).       The Atlas model represents the early version and the Kadee model represents the revised version built during the 1940's and 1950's..  Of course neither has the Duryea underframe of B&O cars but a side view of the early version looks like an N-35 and a side view of the N-35A is the revised version.    

Curiously Atlas letters and numbers its B&O car as an N-35a when it closer to an an N-35.     The end bracing on the Kadee model is different than what B&O used. 

Bottom line is there is a noticeable difference between N-35 and N-35A .   

Hopefully the above is confusing enough to prod the experts to chime in with more complete/precise information.   Right now my flatbed scanner is not talking to my computer so I can't scan and post photos to show the difference.

John King.       


-----Original Message-----
From: Edwin Kirstatter <q1xamacarthur1@...>
To: main@baltimoreandohiorailroadlist.groups.io
Sent: Wed, Oct 13, 2021 12:12 am
Subject: Re: [BaltimoreAndOhioRailroadList] Followup N-35/N35a images - Early Linking 13 States images

Looking at B&O Official Equipment Diagrams we find the Class N-35 built in 1940 and 1941, 50 Ton Steel Hoppers were built by Bethlehem Steel Co. and General American Transport, 1000 cars each with 9-Q trucks and Duryea Underframe.

The N-35A cars were built from 1944 to 1947 by Beth. Stl. Co., Pull. Std., A C & F, Ralston, and Pressed Steel. in 500 to 1000 batches with 9-T trucks and Duryea Underframe with type 1 single spring and AAR Z-26 Center Sills.